tv Nancy Grace HLN March 15, 2010 1:00am-2:00am EDT
breaking news tonight. in the search for a 2-year-old florida rl, caylee six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area 15 houses from the anthony home, confirmed to be caylee. a utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair. the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little caylee
like she's trash. bombshell tonight. ban the photos. that's what tot mom's fleet of defense attorneys are screaming to the trial judge. that's right. tot mom hopes the jury will never see photos of her out on the town in a miniskirt and pushup bra, in the very days, the hours afteshe says her 2-year-old little girl, caylee, disappears. not only that, she wants her own mother's 911 call thrown out where cindy anthony admitsot mom's car smells like a dead body. and listen, that's the tip of the iceberg. the defense lists over 200 pieces of evidence they want banned from the courtroom. why? because it all damning.
to top it all off, after raking in well over a quarter million dollars for their stories, their photos, their interviews, now tot mom says she's bke. broke! the taxpayers, you and me, have to pay for her defense. that's right price tag, the defense says at least $1 million. >> 911, what's your emergency? >> i called a little bit ago. the deputy sheriff -- i found out my granddaughter has been taken. she has been missing for a month. her mother finally admitted that she's been missing. >> okay. what is her -- >> a web of lies, that's what lice say they are dealing with
in the search for caylee anthony. >> casey is a very effective liar. >> what is the address you're calling from? >> we're talking about a 3-year-old littlgirl. oh my god, my daughter finally admitted the baby-sitter stole her. >> you lied to your parents and friends concerning your chd's whereabouts. >> the anthonys admit casey has lied to them again and again. >> you're blaming me that you're sitting in the jail? blame yourself for telling lies. >> there's absolutely nothing to find out, not evenhat i told the detectives. >> well,ou know, everything -- >> if i knew where caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? no. >> i need to find her. >> your daughter admitted the baby is where? >> the baby-sitter took her a month ago. my daughter's been looking for her. i told you my daughter was missing for a month. i found her today but i can't find my granddaughter. >> hdreds of pictures of casey anthony. many embarrassing and racy. we're talking about thousands of photos, photos like that. casey partying it up. >> some of the photos are from the time when caylee had disappeared. others are from farway a year ago. >> i am upset now. i'm completely upset. one, the media's is going to have a freaking field day with
this. >> she just admitted to me she's been tryinto find her herself. >> i don't think there's any evidence that's been released that shows the heinous atrocious cruel aggravator exists. >> there's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today, and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. bombshell tonight. ban the photos. that's what tot mom's fleet of defense attorneys are screaming to the trial judge. tot mom hopes this jury will never see the photos of her out on the town in a miniskirt and a pushup bra. all happening in the very days, the hours after she says her little girl, 2-year-old caylee, disappears. >> you found out she was going to be at a party and then you went to that party, correct? >> yes. >> did you wait there for her at the dragon room? >> i was there and downtown and the grater downtown area, probably until 3:00 in the morning.
>> private, revealing photos. >> how is that relevant as to whether or not she killed her daughter? all they're doing is showing bad character. >> the state's going to contend, one, the motive, one, the reason she killed her daughter was because it just didn't fit in with her lifestyle. >> i'm frustrated and i'm angry. >> there's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today. it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> anywhere we can restrict the irrelevant information from possibly affecting her right to a fair trial it should be done. >> investigative interviews with casey's friend amy huizinga reveals information about a rich social life for casey anthony not long after her daughter was lost from the picture. >> going out, the partying. i don't know if you guys have seen the picture of casey in the american flag. that's from a no-clothes party we went to in y. >> we're playing with fire when we're playing with the rights of a fair trial. >> i got off work, left universal, driving back to pick up caylee like a normal day. i show up to the apartment, knock on the door, nobody answers.
so i call zenaida's cell phone, and it's out of service. >> did casey ever take money from you by using your credit cards without your permission? >> it's not relevant to this case. >> i don't care what i have to do. when told them i would lie, steal, do whatever by any means to get her back. that's exactly how i feel. it's theruth. >> straight out to kathi belich, joining us from cnn affiliate wftv there in orlando. kathi, i've got all the motions right here. there's over 200 pieces of evidence that they want banned from the jury's eyesight and ear sight, i guess. they don't want the jury to hear any of this. >> that's right. they don't. and you saw those pictures. they don't want the jury to see the pictures before or after caylee disappeared. there are 207 statements i counted, plus cindy's 911 call the defense wants to keep out of
this trial. they say the comments are prejudicial, that it's hearsay, it's not admissible, only makes casey look bad, it isn't credible evidence. ithouldn't come into the trial. that's their argument. >> we are taking your calls live. over 200 pieces of evidence tot mom's defense team wants thrown out. the jury will never see or hear over 200 crucial pieces of evidence to the state if they have their way. let's unleh the lawyers. joining us tonight, susan moss, family law attorney, new york. richard herman, renowned attorney out of new york. and high-profile lawyer out of seattle jurisdiction, anne bremner. of course, sue moss, of course, they make her look bad. every piece of evidence that the state brings in, in any trial, makes the defendant look bad because it proves they're guilty. >> oh, these pics will stay in the mix. the pictures before the alleged
abduction come in because they go to motive. the motive that mom didn't want to be a mom any more. the pictures after this alleged abduction is also going to come in. she was supposed to be searching for the kid. not going out and getting drunk. >> richard herman, do they have a leg to stand on? asking for all these pieces of evidence. over 200 pieces of evidence. the 911 call. photos. reams of evidence be thrown out. >> they do, nancy, because in a death penalty case there's a heightened level of due process protection afforded to a defendant. and here the judge is going to have to carefully balance the prejudicial value of the particular items of evidence against the probative value of it. i think a lot of them will be thrown out, please. >> put herman up, please. >> oh, boy. >> richard, it will be -- >> you said ear shot. >> i know, that was aoo b.
>> it will be a cold day below if a 911 call is not allowed in front of a jury what. about it, bremner? >> well, except for that, when i was a prosecutor we had stock briefs that said 911 calls were admissible outside utterances. the fact of the matter is she was talking about something before, how the car smelled before. it's not your classic excited utterance where someone -- >> anne bremner, she was talking about what the car smelled like at that moment when she was calling 911. >> that's coming in. >> she said it smelled like. the thing, e-d. e-d. >> when she opened it up, then she called 911. that's like, i just heard a gunshot, heard, happened two seconds ago. it's in past tense. >> the key on 911 is i'm calling becausthere's a gunman at my door, i'm afraid, my children, my kids are in the bathroom with the 6-year-old sister. >> anne, anne, just try to be honest. don't take one side or the other. do you reay think they're going to throw out the 911 call? do you really believe that, as a lawyer, put your reputation on
this answer. >> okay, but nancy. >> just answer. that's a yes/no. >> this call probable comes in. a lot of it doesn't come in. >> okay. so i'm going to take that as a yes. >> you can take it as a yes. >> to ellie jostad, chief editorial producer, ellie -- wait, hold on, ellie. let's take a look. liz, see if you can scroll through some of these photos for me that they want thrown out. let's see. here is tot mom licking, or let me say, tonguing a burrito with another woman. getting groped by a shirtless young man. you know, nothing says class like urinating in a public parking lot. that one has a good chance of being thrown out. here is tot mom, who cares if she's dancing with another woman? the fact is it's immediately after she says her daughter goes missing. here we go. i said scroll quickly. there are more party photos. typically these would mean
nothing to any of us except that they are taken in the hours, the days after she says her daughter is kidnapped in a public park. out to ellie jostad, what else do they want suppressed? >> well, nancy, there's a long list here. i just want to point out one thing really quickly. i'm looking at the 911 call transcript. the words cindy anthony used is "it smells" with an "s" like a dead body. >> did you hear that, anne bremner? she also used past tense in there. that's in the brief. >> you're not going to let that go, are you? >> no, i'm not. >> i respect that. go ahead, ellie. >> here's a list of the items they want kept out. they want a lot of the testimony about things that witnesses claim, george, cindy, lee anthony described to them about what was going on in their house. for example, both lee and -- both jesse grund, casey's old yfriend, and his father claimed lee anthony claimed there was actually a fight between cindy and her mother -- or casey and her mother where they actually became physical. casey was choked by her mother.
about what she said. >> i've already answered the question. >> you believe your child. >> i have no one to comfort me. >> tried t pin it on zany the nanny. >> not in control of any of this. >> tes to pin it on people who don't even exist. >> you're not helping me help myself. >> what she told me and what i found out was two different thin things. >> just a random question. are there cameras in all of the rooms? >> i have no friging clue. >> we are taking your calls live. out to michelle in south carolina. hi, michelle. >> caller: hey, nancy. thank you so ch for taking my call. >> thank you for calling. >> caller: thanks. your twins are beautiful, by the way. >> thank you. >> caller: i have a comment and a question. >> okay. >> caller: earlier you said that, you know, the prosecutors are making casey look bad, but we have the evidence right in front of us that is showing casey looking herself -- making
herself look bad. you know, after her daughter came up missing. >> my question is since the beginning of this case which i've watched every single show that you've had on , they constantly are talking about fairness and giving her fair trials and now you hear that the taxpayers are going to have to pay her dream team, and just don't understand why she just can't take the initiative, you know, to just stand up and admit it or at least be treated like everybody else has to be treated. >> michelle, let me just throw this into that pot. number one, i didn't say that prosecutors are making her look bad. that's what the defense is claiming the prosecutors are trying to do. i agree wh you. the only one that can make you look bad isyourself, and that's exactly what to the mom has
done. but about her standing up and admiing she did it, her parents' home is now being foreclosed, and i wonder how much money they have tossed into this, good money after bad. ellie jostad, about how much money do we know of or that we know has been reported that to the mom's family has received for their stories, interviews, licensing fees right for photos, right, how much money? >> right, nancy. according to a bunch of different sources, the family was paid or she was paid or their lawyers were paid upwards of $200,000 for interview or to license those videos and pictures you were talking about. we also heard about another news organization that paid the family $6,500 or paid one of their representatives that money. there's also another $5,000 interview fee that's been tossed out there, so when you're talking about it all together we're almost up to $300,000.
>> that's that we know of, ellie. >> right, correct. >> out to natisha. didn't to the mom's parents, george and sinned anthony just get back from a luxury cruise that they allegedly paid for with money from cbs? >> that's correct, nancy. they did take a cruise. we runsing that they did use the money from the cbs interview to go on that cruise, but in addition to that, nancy, particularly these photos and the blue dress i want to point out, that casey anthony said she was doing her own investigating, trying to go to places that the babysitter was hanging out to try to find caylee. in the pictures it doesn't look like she was doing much investigating. >> out to leonard padilla in sacramento, california. what do you make of casey anthony now claiming she's broke and that we, the taxpayers, have to foot the bill? >> well, the justice system that we work under in america provides for counsel, and if
you're indigent, the taxpayers have to in a round-about way pay for it. >> do the taxpayers have to pay for a $1 million defense? where does it say that in the constitution? >> it's going to be upwards of $3 million by the time they get the appeals and everything done. >> i think she fabricated the stories because she didn't have caylee with her, and she knew if she came home without caylee there would be a red flag. >> and that red flag would mean something s wrg. >> something happened, right. !dd
i just wanted to let everyone know that i'm sorry for what i did. >> casey anthony's defense team on a mission to repair her reputation. king that all hearsay and gossip about their client be excluded from trial. the stealing -- >> taking money from my wife's purse. she forged a deposit slip for $4,400. >> check number 146 from her ex-best friend's checkbook.
investigators say this is one of the checks she used to clean out amy huizenga's checking account. >> she was like, maybe this should have be done a long time ago. stolen money from mom, i've been a bad daughter, i've been -- she said, i stole moy from you. >> then there's casey anthony. the alleged party girl. >> huizinga tells investigators, know she had started smoking more pot than she ever had. the statement about casey referred to mid-june. right around the time caylee was last seen. >> so many text messages casey received and also she sent out. those were her favorite topics. who she wanted to have sex with, drinking and smoking pot. that seemed to be the things she was concentrating on mostly. not about caylee. >> and the alleged lies. >> i still have that feeling, that presence. i know she's alive. i do not know where she is. the last person i saw her with was zenaida. >> we can all tell that from the last couple years, casey is a very effective liar. >> i would not let anything happen to my daughter except i made the mistake of trusting another person with her. that's it.
>> i think i would use the word diabolical to describe the way she lies. >> attorney jose baez says casey has suffered the public's hatred and law enforcement or the state attorney's office s successfully tried a homicide case against the defendant in the public eye. >> straight back out to ellie jostad. ellie, aside fm thparty photos of her out partying, scantily clad, significance, immediately after she says her little girl has been kidnapped in a public park. >> right. >> aside from that, aside from the 911 call, her own mother, cindy thony says that to the mom's car smells like a dead body. what else do they want suppressed? >> nancy, there's a bunch of statements here and a lot of them have to do with casey anthony being a liar. various people say that she lied or that cindy told me she'd been telling lies. lee anthony told me she'd been telling lies. george anthony said she'd been telling lies. >> what about the fight?
the alleged fight. fistfight between grandmother, cindy anthony, and tot mom casey anthony. >> well this, according to jesse grund, ex-boyfriend and his father, the information came originally from lee anthony. he said that just a couple nights or actually the night before, i believe, caylee went missing th cindy and casey got into a very heated argument, so heated it actually became physical. that cindy put her hands around casey anthony's neck. >> out to leonard padilla, bounty hunter out of sacramento, california, who put up the bond for tot mom to get out of jail. she was later rearrested. leonard, what do you know about a physical confrontation between casey anthony and grandmother, cindy anthony? >> it took place the evening of the 15th which was father's day and cindy and the baby had come back from visiting cindy's parents and at that time the parents told her casey had
stolen money out of her account. when she got into the discussion wi casey, casey tried to kind of write it off as, no, it didn't take place, somebody's lying. and cindy just lost it and went after her, and basically the statements that jesse and lee made were the same as what i heard from them. and that was that the confrontation got so heated that cindy actually kcked casey down and had her -- was strangling her and except for the interference of, i think it was george at the time, she was trying to hurt casey. >> now, leonard padilla, is this just before or just after caylee goes missing? >> it was the evening right before. see, george says he last saw the child on the 16th around noon. >> right. >> we're of the opinion, as some other people are, that casey gathered up her child that night and left that night. she was never there overnight.
she left that night, and george did not see that child the next day. george was lying about that. >> back to diane in new york's question about the tape. the duct tape ing placed over the child's mouth. postmortem, after death. in kind of a loving gesture. i don't see it, ellen gamburg, a psychotherapist joining us out of new york. what about you? >> nancy, i think that there is such behavior in total here that that is just irrelevant to the photos, the lying, the partying. hard to believe that after all that that duct tape would be anytng significant. >> i don't see it as any type of loving gesture. unleash the lawyers. sue moss, richard herman, anne bremner. and another thing, sue moss, if that was used by the defense as some type of a loving geure,
tot mom would have to admit she was there when the baby died. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, why should this woman start being a loving mother now, after she killed her child? i don't see it. >> what about it, anne bremner? >> well, you know, i think that right now there's no evidence to connect her to the sticker, and there are fingerprints of other people on some of the evidence on the child. >> no evidence to connect her to the duct tape? did you just say that? >> they have forensic experts who i'm sure will opine there's not a connection to be made, and there are other people's fingerprints on the duct tape that are not explained and don't belong to people in the family. there are all kinds of things the defense can do in this case. what they're doing right now is like surgery. getting rid of all the bad statements. getting rid of all the bad pictures. >> like what sorts of things? what can they clm? because she gave a statement her child was taken in plain, broad daylight at a park. then she gave another statement
she dropped the child off at sawgrass apartments. you can't survive giving conflicting statements to police. >> what i was talking about were the statements we're talking about today. all of the hearsay statements. the scores of hearsay statements they're going to try to keep out. they're going to try and keep out all kinds of things until they get to the nut of the case in terms of the defense. >> what about it, richard? >> anne is right, nancy. i mean, this is not a tv show or a miniseries. >> come up with your own thought. don't piggyback anne is right. come on, herman. >> she happens to be right on the law. >> she is not right on the law. >> she is right on the law. >> those statements are coming in, especially the 911 call. >> the 911 call, i absolutely agree with y, is absolutely coming in. >> why is bremner right? you don't -- you know what, never mind. hold on. back to you. ellie jostad, we just heard anne bremner opine, as she says, that the duct tape cannot be traced back to tot mom. now, ellie, isn't it true that this type of duct tape, i believe it's hinkle duct tape, is extremely, let me say,
scarce. it's not rare, but it's scarce. it's difficult to find. isn't it true, ellie, that this duct tape was found in the anthony home? >> yeah. that's right, nancy. according to the reports we've received, this type of tape matched tape that was at the house. now, what they said, it was either from the same roll or it was manufactured in the same way. they also provided tons of paperwk about the stores that sell this tape. most of the big box stores out there like walmart, home depot, don't sell it. it's a hard kind of tape to find and it was also on a gas can in the anthony home. >> i want to go out to dr. joshua perper. chief medical examiner, broward county. author of "when to call the doctor." he is highly esteemed in his field. it is our honor to have him on with us tonight. dr. perper, today the state really pulled one over on us. everybody was screaming, please, show us the dna.
they gave us the actual graphs of the dna which looks like an electrocardiogram or heartbeat. also, i remember the first time i brought in dna at trial, and i told scientist, bring it in. i want to show it to the jury. i was shocked. it looked like unrolled negatives that had gone bad. showing us this, it doesn't tell us a thing about what dna proves. this case, dr. perper, what role do you see dna playing? >> well, in my opinion, it's not going to be of highly probative value because if it's going to be found oevidence close to the child, the mother took care of the child so she's going to claim that those fingerprints were there beforehand. so it's very difficult to see on what kind of piece of evidence this kind of matching of dna versus the dna of the mother is
going to be helpful because of the close proximity in the care or alleged care of the child by the mother. so it's very unlikely that it's going to play any significant role. >> well put, dr. perper. except, very quickly, ellie jostad, if dna turns up on the homemade knockout drug and the syringes beside the remains, many people believe that was used to knock little caylee out, if there is tot mom's dna on that, there's no legitimate reason it should be there. >> right. the big bombshell we've been waiting for is dna evidence on the duct tape or on what you explained the syringe. that would definitely ok bad for the defense. >> chloroform. chloroform. homemade chloroform. as we go to break, happy 18th birthday to friend, stephanie. she is a freshman at purdue. what a smile. studying pre-raw, dreams of being a lawyer. never misses the show.
literally tied, and i was put in a position where someone's trying to trick a confession out of me, and that's not going to happen. >> mr. baez, we mirandized her, at 4:22. she invoked. quit the finger pointing, okay? >> i'm trying to think, does she really do it to better herself or say white lies just to do it? i'm really trying to think now. because sometimes it seems like she lies just to lie. >> i think he may have said i drowned caylee. i think. i think that's what they're trying to say. >> that you intentionally drowned caylee? where was that supposed to have happened? >> i think in the pool in the backyard. >> i as a mom, i know in my gut, the feeling as a parent, you know certain things about your child. you can feel that connection. and i still have that feeling, that presence. i know that she's alive. >> witnesses say casey and cindy had a terrible fight over money casey stole from cindy's mother. california bounty hunter leonard padilla who bonded casey out of jail says lee told him cindy
tried to choke casey on father's day and it get very physical. >> it got into a very heated argument which turned physical and cindy started choking casey. >> straight out to the lines. julie in florida. hi, julie. >> caller: hey, nancy. loved your book. it is awesome. >> thank you. >> caller: i have a quick comment and a question. first thing, good chance that her parents could never sell that house, that that baby may have been killed in. it's probably easier for them to let it go into foreclosure. they're going to get a bunch of book deal, movie deal money, most likely because of all the press on this. secondly, i've noticed from watching a lot of these defendants at their arraignments in court hearings, a particular habit of eye movement, especially of casey anthony, before she was arrested with her fake tears and interviews, she was always gazing down like she's remembering something of what she did. have you noticed that, too? >> i always notice her gazing down, for instance, in this photo we were just showing you, the video, covering her face with her hair.
then there were other times she would put it back in a ponytail but continue to lookown. and, you know, not that i think thlawyers are experts in nonverbal communication, but sue moss, richard herman, anne bremner, when you -- when i would get a defendant on the stand and they couldn't look at me and answer, i would flat-out say, why can't you look at me? why can't you look at the jury and answer? why do you have to look down, or why do you have to look over at your attorney? is he telling you the answer? i mean, when you can't look up and look around at people in the courtroom, to me, that's significant. sue? >> oh, absolutely. and the reason why she's looking down is because most of that time she was pretending to cry, but no real tears were coming down. she was looking down so the cameras couldn't capture her in yet another lie. >> richard herman, don't you hate it when your client tries
and tries to cry, then nothing comes out? >> when my clients try to cry they do cry. she's facing the death penalty, nancy. >> because you punch them in the ribs with that elbow you've got. >> no, she's facing the death penalty here. this is a very serious case. and so what are you going to try to interpret every gesture she makes? i don't even know what sue moss is talking about here. it's ridiculous. >> richard herman, that was an excellent -- i didn't know you could dae so well. the way you danced out of answering that question. anne bremner, can you just be straight. when you can't look somody in the eye and answer and can't look around the courtroom and look people in the face, to me that is suggestive. >> it's a problem when i'm defending somebody. >> it's a problem. >> it's a problem but i'll ll you, nancy, everybody reacts differently. you've heard that a million times. >> oh, lord. >> b it's absolutely true. >> it's true. >> no show with you would have been complete if you hadn't thrown that out there. back to you, kathi belich, with wftv. kathi, tell me what else is
haening in the case right now. i know the defense wants so much of the state's evidence thrown out of court. i don't think the judge is goi to do it. they want her declared indigent so w the taxpayers, have to pay for her defense. what else am i missing? >> there's a hearing next week about the indigency issue, whether the judge will find her indigent and whether the taxpayers will payor the rest of the costs of her defense. we have a deadline ticking here. the new evidence that has surfaced, that's under investigatn, prosecutors asked the judge for permission to keep it secret from the defense. the judge agreed to do that 30 days. that deadline isoming up in about 3 weeks, 2 1/2 weeks from now. it, they he to justi to the judge why they think that needs to be extended. also, there's more than 1,000 pages of new evidence the defense has recently received that we should be getting soon, as well. some of it concerning a very troubled woman who's trying to